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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  July 5, 2013 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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cortizone 10 cooling relief gel. hello, everyone. a testimony set to resume at any moment now in the george zimmerman murder trial. we'll take you back to the florida courtroom live when they return from their lunch break. the last thing jurors heard before the recess was a very testy exchange between zimmerman's attorney and the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on the body of trayvon martin. dr. shiping bao did not want his notes to be reviewed by don west. the doctor's testimony has been c
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contentious throughout cross-examination. let's listen. >> you know as a training experience that if clothing is wet it needs to be packaged in paper bags? >> yes. >> if plastic bags are used -- >> we would let them dry a little bit. >> did that happen in this case? >> again, i do not know. >> okay. the procedure would have been -- >> yes. >> to tdry the clothing and package it in paper. >> i cannot tell you anything. >> you do know from the photograph of the sweatshirt, the hooded sweatshirt it looked wet? >> yes. >> it would be inappropriate and a violation of protocol to take a wet sweatshirt and seal it in a plastic bag? >> there are no plastic bag other than plastic bag carry the body.
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>> in other words, you would never in your lab take a wet piece of clothing that's potentially evidence and seal it in a plastic bag? >> if anybody do that he'll be gone next day. he'll be fired. >> all right. that was testimony a little bit earlier. live pictures right now. we understand that shiping bao is back on the witness stand. they are back now from their lunch break. you're looking at don west, the defense attorney for george zimmerman in these live pictures right now and until they are able to begin testimony and have the microphones we'll take you back there live including audio. we're going to keep a watch on the ongoingins in the courtroom. i want to bring in some analysis from sunny hostin. she's been in the courtroom for the past couple of weeks and mark nejame.
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we're going to first go to sunny. we heard a bit of that testimony as a reminder to people about how contentious it became. why is this relevant wet or dry evidence versus whether mr. bao can recall from his memory or needs notes? what is relevant here to jurors? >> there's no question that the defense wants to shake his credibility in front of the eyes of the jury because i will tell you having been in the courtroom the jury seemed charmed by him. they seemed to like him. he was very analytical. now the defense has to call his credibility into question. they question him about these notes. it's so highly unusual for a witness to draft these notes in preparation of testimony and never tell anyone. witnesses just don't do that. >> what do you mean by that? meaning he should have submitted
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these notes to the prosecution and said that you're going to enter this into evidence. what do you mean by this? >> anything that a witness is going to testify on the stand uses to refresh his recollection or in preparation for testimony is discoverable by the defense and by the prosecution. you have to turn that over especially if you're in an expert witness. often times other than the report and other than whatever documents he or she relies upon, they don't make any notes. prosecutors will tell witnesses do i have everything? you don't need to make any other notes? we're good. the minute you start doing that, making other notes you have to turn it over to the defense. the fact that this is happened is just so strange. i can't overestimate how strange it is. it simply doesn't happen. he has been qualified as an expert over 20 times.
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>> it's not that he's in unfamiliar territory? >> he must have been. it's just very odd for a medical examiner. >> let me bring in mark nejame. he's in position there in sanford. is this an issue of shaking the credibility of the prosecution witness or is there some real strategy here beyond that? it at the very least seems like a distraction? >> it's a lot more than all that. first of all, one of the key points that the defense is bringing out is that how was the clothing wraps. we know from prior testimony it was said they were wrapped in plastic. that can cause a breakdown and it's not possible to get proper dna and everything from that. that relates back to some of the prior testimony. very critical. that's why so much time was
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spent on whether paper or plastic. everybody has work product. work product you're not going to turn over but you don't bring it to court and refresh your memory. as soon as you look at it and say this is what i'm relying on the other side's got it. i've used it against i can't tell you how many law enforceme enforcement officers who were not properly prepared. the m.e. brought it in and they got caught and now the defense is going through their personal file. >> it may take the jurors time to digest what this medical examine's testimony means. when we come right back i want to ask you about the powerful testimony of trayvon martin's earlier today. we'll take a short break for now. when we come back more of the george zimmerman trial. this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪
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more on the george zimmerman trial now.
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we continue to watch live pictures. testimony has not resumed as of yet. i've got with me former prosecutor sunny hostin and mark nejame. to kind of reflect on what we've seen we talked about the medical examiner. he'll be returning to the stand. we're talking about testimony that really goes to the heart of this case. we're figuratively and literally, you have the mother sybrina fulton who talked about the loss of her son and identifying the voice on that 911 call. you heard about the medical examiner who talked about the entry wound of that bullet. earlier we heard her talk about identifying her son knowing that this was her son that was on on that gurney. let's listen to her talk about the tattoos on her son. >> you were asked about hope. did you hope your son wouldn't
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be dead, trayvon martin? you were asked by defense counsel about hope. are you still hoping he was alive? >> i hope he was still alive. >> did you enjoy listening to that recording? >> absolutely not. >> thank you. no further questions. >> another issue. ma'am, i don't mean to put you through this anymore necessary. you certainly would hope that your son trayvon martin did nothing that could have led to his own death, correct? >> what was your question again? >> you certainly hope as a mom, you hope that your son, trayvon martin, would not have done anything that would have led to
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his own death, correct? >> what i hope for is that this would not have ever happened and he would still be here. that's my hope. >> absolutely. now dealing with the reality that he's no longer here, it's certainly your hope as a mom, hold out hope as long as you can that trayvon martin was in no way responsible for his own death, correct? >> i don't believe he was. >> i know. that's the hope that you continue, correct? >> i don't understand what you're trying to ask me. >> thank you. i don't mean to put you more than you need to. no further questions. >> that's a different moment than the tape i was calling for. we have the defense attorney mark o'mara trying to make her testimony fit their strategy. what was the reaction of the jurors as you were in the courtroom, sunny, to listening to this exchange and the mother
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saying she doesn't quite understand what you're asking me here. she answered very clearly what she wanted to answer. >> well, the jury was riveted by her testimony. remember, five out of six women on the jury are mothers. i can tell you that they didn't take their eyes off of her. i saw one juror in particular when the 911 call was played and you could hear the screaming, she was staring intently at sybrina fulton and i can also tell you my perception is mark o'mara's cross-examination wasn't perceived well by the jury. >> how do you know that? >> just having been in courtrooms so many times, having tried my own cases, reported on cases. i'd like to think i have a good sense of juries.
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i'm surprised that he went down the path that he went during this cross-examination. i think he's a fine attorney. i think he's a good attorney and most attorneys will tell you that cross examining a grieving parent is generally not a good idea and it's especially not a good idea when your line of questioning goes to whether or not a mother believes that her son, he's responsible for his own death. i think it was really ill-advised and it wasn't received well in the courtroom. >> mark, i want to get your take in a moment. we'll have much more of the george zimmerman trial as we continue to wait for testimony to resume following recess. when we come back in this cnn news room we'll bring you up to date on everything that's taking place in egypt. still unrest throughout cairo and beyond as a result of that milita military coup taking place. much more straight ahead.
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we'll have much more of the george zimmerman trial in a moment. they have just come back from recess. testimony will resume shortly. right now audio is cut. you're only seeing the visuals. we'll take you there to sanford, florida. overseas, flashes of violence erupted in in egypt two days after the country opposed the democratically elected president. the health ministry says two people have been killed. they're in the streets calling for morsi to be restored to power. egyptian state television says several pro-morsi supporters were wounded. the military says no live ammunition was used.
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morsi supporters said his removal from office was illegal. they are calling today's protest a day of rejection. anti-morsi demonstrators are out but in much smaller numbers than what we saw a couple of days ago. their massive protest did help bring about the coup that removed morsi from power. this is what matters. the experience of a product. how will it make someone feel? will it make life better? does it deserve to exist? we spend a lot of time on a few great things. until every idea we touch
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u.s. committee aeconomy added m. alison, market is up. unemployment steady. is there another edge to this sword? >> let's talk about the happy stuff first. this is a good looking report. employeers added 195,000 jobs in june and many more were added. you look at the numbers and you see the gains were led by a sector calling leisure and hospitality jobs. it's a sign we're all going on vacation and sendi inspending m restaurants baa they need to hire more. you hinted some bad news the the
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bad snnews is the participation rate is low. we're not seeing much change there. there's still a lot of discouraged workers. people out of work not even looking for work. that number jumping the most in eight months. this is a b for wall street. >> thanks so much. the family of sarah has released the video of the 10-year-old girl since she had lung transplant. the mouths the words high and i love you to her mother. she cannot speak because she remains intubated. her body is showing no sign right now of rejection.
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sarah's family sued to change a policy that put children under 12 at the bottom of a waiting list for transplants. a woman who found herself at the bottom of a deep sink hole says her faith helped keep her calm. this is pamela knox and her rescuer climbing out of a ten foot hole. she didn't know at the time what was going on. she only knew that something was very wrong. >> i had just finished doing sop errands and as i was driving down the street it's an area that i've driven down before over many, many years, all of a sudden the street underneath me
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caved in. he found myself falling into this deep, deep hole. i couldn't understand what was going on. i didn't know what was happening. i'm like, oh, my gosh i'm falling. the this really happening to me. as i was falling like that i just started calling out on the name of jesus. i just kept saying jesus, jesus, jesus. over and over again. i didn't know. >> wow. and the lord answered her prayers. she's okay. she was on cnn's "new day" this morning. her car was beginning to fill with water. celebrity chef paula deen is parting ways with her long time agent. in a statement released by her publicist today she said she wished barry well in all of his
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en endevours. more than a dozen retailers have said they will no longer do business with her. we're keeping a close watch on sanford, florida. the attorneys at the beach there. when the testimony resumes we'll take you live to sanford, florida. ♪ hey! ♪ ♪ let's go! ♪ [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. ♪ ♪ yeah! yeah! yeah! or you can choose to blend out. ♪ oh, yeah-eah! ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move.
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welcome back. we continue to watch the courtroom there in sanford, florida. you see the attorneys discussing come matter with the judge. the jurors are not in the room. the medical examiner who was testifying before lunch is sitting on the stand. his testimony will resume. let's bring in our legal analysts to talk further about all that has happened thus far. former prosecutor sunny hostin and mark nejame who is joining us from sanford, florida. mark, it's unclear what they might be discussing but it has something to do with the fact the medical examiner would need to refer to notes in order to give a fuller picture of what he recalls from the night or the days of the murder of trayvon martin, the autopsy was conducted. what's your guess as to what is taking place?
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what kind of issue are they trying to nail down? >> one of the things i would be discussing is the judge's order that once they had copies that all notes would be destroyed. you need to submit this into the court files so you have a proper documentation of the proceedings in the event there's a conviction. i don't quite understand the judge's ruling on that because everything has to be put in a court file. it would be under seal but you can't destroy something and have it not subject to appellate review. i think all the analysts agree we have been dumbfounded by this. any time you reference something and referring to it while on the stand it's fair game no matter which side you're on, prosecution or defense. i've had it happen with police officers where all of a sudden the prosecutor presume they wouldn't be coming in with anything other than an arrest report and i say let me see your file. they're agast like this m.e. was and the judges without exception
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have required them to turn it over. i don't see how the judge cannot have these turned over and it's fair game now for the defense. the m.e. specifically said he relied on these notes and this file and hence it's fair game. >> jurors are not in the courtroom. they will just hear or be asked to enter once the judge makes a ruling on whatever motion is taking place. earlier, what is profound is the testimony of trayvon martin's mother. likely during that lunch recess the jurors are citying about the mother. she talked about identifying the son and the tattoos on his body which speaks to who she. let's listen to those sounds about the tattoos on her
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son'senson's body and what it says about him. >> he had two tattoos on his body. do you know where they were? >> he had praying hands on his right upper shoulder with his grandmother's and great grandmother's name. that's the first tattoo. they were praying hands and they had pearls going through them. >> do you know where the other tattoo was? >> the other tattoo was on his left wrist. he had my name there. >> sunny and mark, we're talking about five of the six jurors are mothers. sunny, it would seem the testimony from this mother would really touch the mothers who are on that jury panel. >> yeah. i would think so. from my vantage point in the courtroom that's what i saw. i will also say that when
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javarhis fulton testified they almost seemed more riveted by his testimony. they were staring at him. i've interviewed him before. he's very eloquent. he's a college student. as far from being a thug as one can imagine. i suspect that they comparison was also taking place in the jurors minds if this was trayvon martin's brother, who was trayvon martin. >> primary to his testimony, he talked about the closeness of he and his brother. there was also a contentious issue that the defense attorney wanted to magnify. explain what that was about and how that seemed to sit with -- before we try to answer that question let's go back to testimony. they are about to resume that testimony of shiping bao who is
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the medical examiner. jurors are not in the room. >> today you said it would be one to ten minutes. >> yes. >> your opinion has changed between -- >> be changed. >> let him finish his question before you give your answer. >> your opinion has changed since your deposition last november until today, is that correct? >> no not here today. until two or three weeks. >> you've changed your opinion two to three weeks ago -- >> three weeks ago. >> three weeks ago? >> yes. >> about how long trayvon martin may have lived after sustaining the gunshot wound? >> yes. >> is that based upon additional research that you did? >> based on another autopsy i did in our office.
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we have a case very similar to trayvon martin's case three weeks ago. first i need to explain to you what is opinion. opinion can be changed. that's why you asked jury to be open minded, to have open mind, right. opinion there's no truth or force just right or wrong. if you have new information, you have new experience, in you read a new book, you will change your opinion. if someone never change opinion, you can call mental retarded or you never learn, right. >> the focus of my questioning now is you changed your opinion. >> you surprised. >> the reason you changed your
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opinion is because of case that you handled at the medical examiner's office. >> three weeks ago. >> not additional research through textbooks or consultations with other experts? >> no. >> three weeks ago when you changed your opinion is when you decided that instead of one to three minutes it may have been one to ten minutes that trayvon martin may have lived? >> yes. >> did you -- once you formed that opinion did you make notes of it? >> i did not make notes of it. i have notes on it. >> did you contact the state attorney's office to tell them that you changed your important opinion. >> when prior to today but after the november deposition have you spoken with or met with members of the state attorney's office? >> yes, we did. >> when?
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>> yesterday. >> any time prior to your deposition -- i'm sorry. any time after your deposition and prior to yesterday did you meet with or talk with any member of the state attorney's office? >> the only time we talked is to the secretary jennifer. we asked the time when i should come here to testify and i told jennifer i need to meet with the lawyers, the attorney, if he want to present the photos because if he presented photoed i want to know what kind of photo he want to present so i need to prepare to explain the photos. >> okay. you had that conversation with a staff member of the state attorney office. >> i always talk to her. >> yesterday you met? >> yes, july 4. >> was there anybody else present? >> no.
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>> where was it? >> where or when? >> where? >> in my office. >> prior to that meeting you had not spoken to anyone about your anticipated testimony except with the legal staff jennifer? >> i told him, nobody else. >> yesterday, when you meet did talk about your anticipated testimony for today? >> yes. >> you met with him a half hour, 40 minutes, something like that? >> i don't have any notes no recall how long. >> what do you think? >> it's my opinion, not fact. >> what would your opinion be as to how long you met yesterday? >> 40 minutes. >> during that 40 minutes did you tell mr. de la rionda that
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you changed your opinion about how long mr. trayvon martin liverliv liver livered? >> i don't remember. >> do you have any notes? >> i do not have any notes. >> do you think it was an important matter? >> i think it's important. >> important enough to tell the lead prosecutor in this case you change ed your opinion? >> he's not my lawyer. i'm not his employee. i'm an independent voice. >> are you saying you don't remember whether or not you told him that your opinion changed -- let me finish the question. are you saying you don't remember whether you told mr. de la rionda yesterday that your opinion concerning how long trayvon martin lived after the gunshot wound that you didn't tell him that your opinion
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changed? >> i don't remember. i did not write down i did or not. i have two purpose -- >> i don't remember. i did not write down -- >> the reason i say i did not remember is because i did not write down. i ask not answer you question which i'm not sure. the purpose of the meeting was i wanted no what kind of photo he wanted me to present because i don't want a surprise. you give me photo. he may present a photo that's not my photo. >> specifically on that point. that's all i'm interested in right now. it's your testimony regarding whether you told mr. de la rionda that your opinion changed that trayvon martin may have lived from one to three minutes from one to ten minutes that you
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don't remember whether you mentioned that or not? >> i don't remember. that's not reason i meet him. i may said, i may not have said. >> you may have said it. you may not have. >> there's a difference between a fact and png. >> let's talk about something else then. >> okay. >> at your deposition last november you acknowledged that trayvon martin had the active ingredient of marijuana thc in his ingredient? >> yes. >> 1.5 nanograms. >> it was your opinion that level of marijuana would have no physical or mental emotional effect? >> yes. >> that was your testimony in november? >> yes. >> when you prepared your notes for your testimony today one of your notes indicates that since last november you've changed your mind on that subject?
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>> changed my opinion. >> changed your opinion. >> todays the fact, opinion, you cannot use story or minds. i changed my opinion. >> last fall -- >> everybody change. i can change every hour. i don't see any problem. >> last fall your opinion was the level of marijuana would have no physical or mental effect, correct? >> yes, at that time. >> now your opinion is it would indeed have at least some mental effect? >> could be. i said could be. >> that's based upon additional research. >> i spent hours and hours. i read papers and i tried to pull out my previous research and i talked to other experts. >> i'm sorry. >> i talked to other experts.
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>> who did you talk with? >> i talked to my previous friend in washington state. >> who is that please? >> dr. brooks. >> is that the last name? >> yeah. >> is this person a toxicologist? >> he's a biologist. he's one of the best of low dose radiation effect in the world. i work with him for many years. >> you consulted with dr. brooks about the issue of toxicology? >> yes. >> did you review studies where research was done on the intoxicating effects or the impairment effects of marijuana at various levels?
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>> yes. >> can you tell us today what studies you consulted that led to your change of opinion --lim hearing is o richardson hearing. keep on topic for that. >> let me focus you on that. when did you change your mind about the significance of the thc levels of trayvon martin's blood? >> i don't remember exactly the time. could be in last 60 days. when we decide to have this trial i tried to prepare for this testimony. not every case will go to trial. >> you're saying that sometime in the last 60 days is when you changed your opinion on the effects of the marijuana? >> yes. >> did you mention that to mr. de la rionda when you met with
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him for about 40 minutes? >> no. i did not mention i changed my opinion. i said marijuana tox report is part of the ouautopsy report. i said i should report the jury the toxicology report. i did that every time in the prooef previous case. he said we may not talk about it because of some issue or some hearing. >> did you tell him that your opinion had changed? >> i did not tell him. >> did you tell him your opinion changed about the significance of the thc level. >> i did not. >> why not? >> the issue is not why. the issue is did he tell him. i'd like to stay focused on that issue at this time. >> yes, of course. was there any conversation with mr. de la rionda about anything
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related to marijuana and the research you had done? >> no, i did not. i said i need to not just marijuana but toxicology report because toxicology report is part of the autopsy report. jury need to know. it's their right to know. we cannot skip that. >> was there anybody present during your conversation yesterday with mr. de la rionda? >> no. >> had you spoken to my staff member, lawyer, investigators, paralegal where the notion of marijuana came up? >> no. >> yesterday was the only time you spoke with mr. de la rionda or anyone on behalf in connection with this case of your deposition of last november? >> he's the only one i know in the state attorney office other
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than the secretary or investigators. he's the only attorney i talk to. >> you didn't tell her anything about changing your opinion on the marijuana issue? >> no, no. i don't think she can understand that. >> thank you, your honor. >> any other witnesses that you wish to call in regards to richardson hearing? are there any other witnesses you wish to call in regards to the richardson hearing? >> i have a couple of follow up questions just to be clear. i may have clouded the issue. until three weeks ago your opinion was that trayvon martin would have lived one to three minutes?
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>> yes. >> based upon the case in the medical examiner's office you now believe it was one to ten minutes? >> yes. >> as to the marijuana in last november you believed that there would be no physical or mental effect by the marijuana? >> yes. >> today you believe there would be? >> not just today. in the last 60 days when i tried to prepare this testimony. >> right. for the last 60 days you have believed that there is some significance to the level of marijuana and it could have -- >> it's not an issue. the richardson issue is that information was made known to the state attorney's office and if they failed to pass the information onto you. do you have any other questions regarding that question of dr. bao? >> your honor, with the court's permission i'd like to expand
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this a bit because the admissibility issue is -- >> i'm not on that issue at this time. for the third time we're talking about the richardson violations and whether or not there was one. this is a richardson hearing. do you have any other testimony you want to elicit on that or any other witnesses that you wish to call on that issue? >> no ma'am. >> does state have any other witnesses you wish to call? >> no. i'll be glad to show counsel my question on this issue and he can answer it back. i'll be glad to share that with the court. may i approach? >> what issue are you talking about? >> the one to ten minutes. you can look at the answer i've prepared. >> that says one to three minutes. >> the court after hearing testimony finds there's no richardson violation.
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are you ready to cross examine the dr. bao and bring the jury in? >> i would like, yes, but, i would like to question bao about his opinion regarding the intoxicating effects of marijuana? >> very briefly. >> before the jury. >> we've already arded it here. >> i've made my ruling. the information i've heard at this time, my ruling stands. >> this is new information, please. >> i understand. you can ask him whatever you want but not in the presence of the jury. >> all right. thank you. regarding the intoxicating effects of marijuana in trayvon martin's system, it's now your opinion based upon additional research skcon sunlight with otr
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experts there was some mental or physical defect by the level of marijuana that was this mr. martin's system? >> that's your opinion. my opinion is marijuana could have the effect or some effect. >> that's your opinion. my opinion is it could have -- >> no effect or some effect. if you ask my opinion then you say instead of your opinion, ask me yes or no. i cannot do that. >> your opinion is, not mine, your opinion is that there could be no effect or there could be some effect? >> yes. >> you can't tell exactly how much? >> i cannot. >> thank you. based upon that my prior ruling on the toxicology issue and the
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state's motion in limenie remains. that's the court's order. are we ready to bring the jury in to finish or >> you'll have to give a copy. i gave him back his copy. i toedon't have a copy. >> would the court ask the witness to make his notes available? mine have my notes all over them. >> that's fine. okay. let's go ahead and bring the jury in. >> okay. we were just watching there this richardson hearing. it was a technicality that the attorneys wanted to resolve whether the state refused to admit evidence which is by way of that medical examiner changing his opinion. but the judge just ruled on
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that. no violation. we're going to take a short break as they bring in the jurors to resume testimony of the medical examiner. right back after this. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote.
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offer ends july 8th. adt. always there. all right. i'm fredricka whitfield. welcome back. resumption of the george zimmerman trial. you're looking at live pictures of the te fence attorney don west ands the defendant there, george zimmerman. the jurors are being brought back into the room. there was a technicality that had to be argued while the jurors were out of the room. then they'll resume testimony. cross-examination of the medical examiner, shiping bao. let's listen in now as don west approaching the microphone. >> we've had an opportunity now to take a look at your notes, and you have them back. >> yes. >> if you would please, if any of your answers in my questioning or mr. de-- would y please tell us? >> what do you mean? refresh my notes?
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>> what i'm saying is this. if at any point in the questioning you use your notes to refresh your memory or that you are relying on your notes instead of having a memory, would you please let us know? >> okay. >> okay. i think before lunch we were talking about the basic protocol used in conducting an autopsy. >> yes. >> at the medical examiner's office. and you were saying that the clothing is removed item by item and packaged. >> yes. >> and there would be a chain of custody started. correct? >> yes. >> so the person who packaged the clothing would indicate on the packaging that they received it and they would actually initial or sign the packaging. >> yes. generally speaking.
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>> and then true whose ever hands those packages or that evidence may have traveled, would also sign to indicate the chain of custody? >> yes. >> in this instance, you don't remember specifically if you were present when mr. martin's clothing was removed and packaged? >> normally, i should be there. >> of course. but you don't specifically remember -- >> no. i told you i do not remember anything on the day of autopsy. >> but you have a procedure whereby the clothing is removed by one of the assistants, provided to another, who then photographs it and packages it, correct? >> yes. >> and you have no reason to think that wasn't done in this case? >> yes. right. >> and then once the clothing is removed and on its way to being photographed and packaged, you then do a preliminary inspection of the body? >> yes.
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>> and at what point in the sequence are the fingernail scrapings done? >> i do not recall. it's autopsy technician's job to scraping of fingernails. >> this this case -- well, generally speaking, you don't do that? >> no. i never do that, actually. >> so it's always a technician? >> yes. >> and do you know which technician in this case did that? >> i believe it's ben dalton. >> and is there a specific procedure that's used for that? >> i do not -- i do not know. they were trained to do this job. it's their responsibility. i have confidence on them they did right thing. >> but you don't know in this case whether he did it right or not? >> i do not. >> and is it the practice of your lab to use one of the little wooden sticks for all
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five fingers on each hand? >> yes. >> why is that? >> i did not -- i did not write the protocol. i don't know. >> do you know who did write the protocol? >> i don't know either. >> is that okay with you that they use one stick for all five fingers? >> that's not my job. i will not worry about it. >> would you agree that if you use one stick for all five fingers, there's no way to identify which finger may have interest? >> yeah. you cannot if you just use one for all five fingers. then you have no ability to identify which one. >> and how would you know, in fact, that in the process of making the scrapings, that some of the biological material that you couldn't see didn't actually wipe off instead of being accumulated with each finger? >> object as to speculation. >> sustained. he testified he doesn't --
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>> yeah. i never did that job. i have no experience about that stuff. so you can ask them. >> you wouldn't be able to say, then, whether or not it was done correctly or incorrectly? >> i have no experience. i have no fact. i have no opinion. >> do you know, in fact, that each of the five fingers were scraped on each hand? >> i hope so. >> of course. but do you know? >> i do not. i told you i don't remember anything on the day of autopsy. >> does the protocol require all five fingers to be scraped? >> i never read that protocol. >> you can't tell me, then, i take it when trayvon martin's fingernails looked like? >> i look at trayvon martin's body everywhere, everything. >> can you tell me what his fingernails looked like? and by that i mean, were they long? were they short?
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were they cut off below the tip of the finger? >> i -- i told you, i don't remember. if i find something significant to my atteio write it down. anything i did not write down, i believe is not significant. >> right. so in other words, if it was significant to you, you wrote it down. >> yes. >> if it wasn't significant, you didn't. >> yes. >> but if you missed something, it wouldn't be there. >> objection. >> i will not miss anything. it's my job to not miss anything. i shouldn't miss anything. >> could you show me -- first of all, can you tell me what trayvon martin's fingernails looked like? >> i do not remember. >> can you tell me whether or not the act of scraping them is likely to be successful because they were long or short? >> i did not do that. i told you, i don't have memory. i do not have any fact.
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i have no opinion. >> so if i were to show you a picture of trayvon martin's fingernails, you wouldn't know whether or not they looked the same that day? >> the fingernail has to connect to trayvon's head for me even to identify. >> i'm talking about the condition. what the fingernails looked like. if i showed you a picture, that wouldn't do you any good because you have no memory? >> yes. >> is that correct? >> i do not have any memory. i told you before, i told you right now, i do not remember anything. >> part of the protocol also includes fingernail clippings, correct? >> it's not my protocol. it's not my job. it's technician's job. they are trained to do that. >> don't you supervise the technicians? >> i supervise them. >> don't you make sure they do their job completely and correctly? >> i have confidence on them. >> well -- >> they are trained to do their job. i cannot keep my eye on them when i do